(Throughout Act 1 you will see numbers in double square brackets. These numbers are citations which you can use in conjunction with the chat logs to confirm that I’m not fucking with you.
Throughout this doc, the names of all innocent or even arguably innocent parties are censored.)
[trigger warnings: suicide references, (in citations: abuse references)]
July 14:
I had too much to drink at a karaoke bar the previous night to cope with an observation I’d made. An observation that, in tandem with countless other quiet observations made or remembered over the last couple of months, lead to a single inescapable conclusion — Zoe had been cheating on me.
I wake up hungover the next morning and look around the hotel room, but can’t find Zoe. I check my phone to find she’s sent me a message to meet in Japan Town, so I take a quick shower and order a cab, but the driver almost immediately takes a wrong turn — at which point I remember the previous night.
Wait. Right. Shit.
I ask him to bring me back to the hotel, grab all of my stuff, and have him drive me to the library instead. Eventually Zoe messages me to ask where I am and why I ditched her, and I tell her she lied. She plays dumb, and I ask her what happened between her and Nathan Grayson, and — realizing what I’m most likely to have found out — she admits that she lied about not having had sex with anyone while she and I were sort of broken up between May and June, and that she had in fact been fucking Nathan for some portion of that time.
Friggen Nathan Stupid-Red-Pants-Wearing Kotaku-Writing Grayson.
She gets super remorseful and says how awful she’d felt about it and how not telling me was the most fucked up stupidest thing she’d ever done and how sorry she is and how she doesn’t know how I can ever forgive her for this one single thing she did wrong and is so wracked with guilt about.
Except that no — this ain’t amateur hour and just because Nathan was at the same bar last night doesn’t mean I’m limited to whatever he was most likely to have told me. Fuck, we never even so much as said hello. We just stood inches from each other with dinky little mix drinks in hand like a couple of imbeciles pretending there ain’t nothing awkward at all going on there.
No, that’s not how this works. How this works is I’ve had two possible pictures in my head for the past month. One that looked like some ransom-note collage of letters Scotch-taped over a cum-covered canvas spelling out “Zoe Quinn is the best person. Best possible person. You are a bad person if you think Zoe is not the best person.” And another in the form of a precision-carved jigsaw puzzle, for which all of the pieces I wasn’t missing fit perfectly into what seemed to be a subtly-worded message to the effect of “lol, ur an idiot, she’s a jerk, flip me over for list of dates and names of people she’s cheated on you with.”
How this works is I’ve been telling myself “Nah, that can’t be what the jigsaw puzzle means. Look, this cum collage Zoe gave me says so.”
How this works is Zoe gave me one more piece at the bar the previous night, because her only other option was to risk my getting a bunch more pieces from Nathan. That piece contained some fine print which read “The cum collage may not be entirely accurate.”
So I ask Zoe what happened between her and Nathan before we were broken up, and she gives me some PR-laden “I was probably getting emotionally closer to him than appropriate. Right at the end of things with us.”
Okay: some context here regarding “at the end of things with us.” Right at “the end of things with us” she canceled the game we were co-developing and stood me up a bunch of times during the travel-free month’s worth of time we were looking forward to spending together, as a result of which I had my first ever panic attack [April 29th], because I was worried the one person I’d ever managed to fall in love with might be breaking up with me for some reason I couldn’t figure out. When I related these worries to Zoe, she assured me the relationship wasn’t in danger and that she loved me and was even happy that I cared enough to worry. This was part of a fun little emergent two player power / head game she decided to play with me. The gist of the rules seemed to be as follows:
- If boyfriend relates observations that lead to a correct belief, girlfriend is to make up false reason to explain observations. If boyfriend backs down, girlfriend wins.
- If boyfriend doesn’t back down, and notes girlfriend’s reason conflicts with other observations, girlfriend must get angry and demand boyfriend trust her unconditionally. Boyfriend must then choose between trusting girlfriend, or trusting his own ability to so much as reason clearly.
- If boyfriend chooses to trust girlfriend, girlfriend must demand he trust her about something that contradicts something else she demands he trust her about. When boyfriend cannot possibly act in any way that doesn’t violate one of her principles or claims, girlfriend must establish he is going insane. If boyfriend succumbs to additional bouts of anxiety spent questioning his own sanity — girlfriend wins: multiply points by number of hours longest panic attack lasts.
- If boyfriend does not back down, and decides instead to trust his own ability to think clearly, girlfriend must threaten to break up with boyfriend. If boyfriend backs down, girlfriend wins.
- If boyfriend continues trusting simple reasoning, girlfriend must actually break up with boyfriend (for a period of time no shorter than 1 hour and not exceeding 2 days). If boyfriend does not bring up the subject again, girlfriend wins.
- If boyfriend does not back down, and figures that since the relationship is over, he might as well try to get the universe to make sense, girlfriend must figure out some way to break up with him *even more*. If boyfriend drops the subject, girlfriend wins. If boyfriend does not drop the subject, repeat step 6 — point multiplier for number of times step 6 is repeated until girlfriend wins.
- If boyfriend calls bullshit on the whole thing and breaks up with girlfriend, boyfriend wins. This is the only winning condition for boyfriend.
We played this game quite a number of times [up until around May 29th], and she won in every conceivable way the game allows. With any luck, knowing the rules in advance will be helpful to the next contestant; I had no such advantage.
In effect, what Zoe preferred to just telling me the truth, was to convince me I was going insane [[7]], pretend she had no idea why, say she just didn’t have time to hang between work and the three friends from Texas she was letting crash at her house for a week [May 4th – 10th] and ostracize me for the duration of her newly truncated stay in Boston — all the while Facebook-messaging me nightly to tell me how much she loved me and was concerned about me — unless I tried to figure out anything that would make things make sense again, in which case: see game rules above.
What the jigsaw puzzle says, is that she made two of the friends up, and only Nathan was staying at her house that week. And she made every effort to avoid seeing me so she didn’t have to be in the awkward position of hanging out with both her boyfriend and the guy she was cheating on him with. But we’ll get to that.
I press her and ask what happened physically. She says “we got kinda cuddly.”
The story so far then is that she avoided me for a week to have a guy sleep at her house, and they got “emotionally closer than appropriate” and the only result was that they “got kinda cuddly.”
At this point I remind her of how just a few weeks ago she brought up the topic of trust, and went on for some time about how she would never be so irresponsible as to lie in a relationship, because, she said, a single breach of trust could break the whole thing.
So now I ask her why she would go so far as to even start that conversation if she had in fact been lying to me almost constantly for months, and all she can respond with is “I don’t have a good answer for that.”
I figure that reminding her of this thing she said would make her less likely to lie again, and ask her “who else?”.
“no one.”
Okay, there goes that.
I ask her again.
“no one else.”
What in the actual fuck? WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK HOW HAS SHE NOT CAUGHT ON THAT I ALREADY KNOW AND AM GIVING HER A CHANCE TO COME CLEAN. I make it clear and tell her we can’t fix this if I can’t trust her, and she finally seems to get it.
“robin.”
Okay good who el– wait, what the fuck? Robin? Robin Arnott?? HE’S NOT ON THE JIGSAW PUZZLE LIST WHAT THE FUCK MAN I LIKED ROBIN! I showed him how neural nets worked at IndieCade back in February. What the fuck Robin, why you gotta be like that? You knew we were dating the least you could’ve done was tell me.
I poker face and ask her “who else?” I tell her to list them all, not one by one so she can determine which ones I do and don’t know about. I ask her to do it because she wants this to work between us. She ignores that and continues listing one at a time.
“Blue, once during the break, while we were drunk.”
“Obviously.”
“Turquoise, during the break”
Blue and Turquoise were on the jigsaw list. She definitely did both of them way more than once [throughout mid May to June], but in any case their names get censored because they presumably only had sex with her during the break, so unlike Robin Arnott, Joshua Boggs and Nathan Grayson, they weren’t slimy enough to sleep with someone they knew was in a relationship. Though to be clear, Zoe and I agreed (minimally for STD concerns, but also because we both just kind of wanted the assurance) that we would tell each other if we slept with anyone during this break — Zoe however, thought it would be more fun to spend it playing a new game. Here were the rules:
- Player must convince ex-boyfriend that player can’t even entertain the thought of having sex with anyone but him. [[10]]
- Player must bring up strong principled stances to prevent player’s ex-boyfriend from sleeping with anyone but player.
- Player may secretly have sex with as many people as desired.
- Player gets one point for every person player secretly has sex with.
- Point multiplier per hookup for each time player misleads ex-boyfriend into having unprotected sex with player (by telling him player has not had sex with anyone else).
- Point multiplier per hookup for each time player goes on a long vocal tirade about how unethical that sort of thing would be.
- Point multiplier per strong principled stance brought up to convince ex-boyfriend not to sleep with anyone else.
She won the hell out of that game — but I want to take this opportunity to point out that we’re not talking about some remedial course high schooler still figuring out how to not treat people like turds here. Zoe’s 27 years old, and has 19 thousand twitter followers and her own wikipedia article touting her as a voice for all that is right and just and good in the world. And she’s fucking smart.
“Who else? Everyone.”
“Josh.”
Joshua Boggs was also on the jigsaw list. Joshua Boggs knew she was in a relationship. Joshua Boggs is her boss. Joshua Boggs is married. Joshua Boggs is a total dick.
“Everyone. List them”
“I think that’s everyone.”[[1]]
. . . what? She thinks that’s everyone? How does that even? What? Was she just being skeezy so nonchalantly that she’ll just forget a few people here and there? Like, for whatever reason she just remembers those five guys?
And I keep thinking back on this and I’m like “Five guys. Man. she cheated on me with five guys? Five guys.”
And now I can’t stop mentally referring to her as Burgers and Fries.
But it’s okay, I will likely get past it so long as I remember it was very very probably considerably more than five guys. Thank god for that.
(There’s some confusion on this point. To be clear she cheated on me with 3 people while we were in an exclusive relationship, and 2 people while we were sort of on a break, during which she claimed we were functionally still exclusive.)
The conversation continues (paraphrased):
“And how long did it go on?”
“With Robin it was once during game jam [late March]. Everything was fucked up and I was drunk and lonely and fucking miserable. Josh was a few days later. Similar reasons”
“What was the nature of the relationship with Josh? How long did it go on?”
“A few days because he told me he had a wife”
“you’re failing here.”
“what?”
“you are lying.”
“no?”
“it’s over I’m sorry”
“What?? wait shit no I was misremembering. It started during GDC before you arrived I think? As well as later in LA” [March 16th – June 2nd?]
Okay first: the last two quotes are verbatim and the “I was misremembering” line is hilarious. [[2]]
Second: I got to GDC just the day after she did. Which means they had sex the night before I arrived. Which means she probably blew him like 12 hours before I kissed her. Which — I just don’t want to think about — but in any case, when she casually introduced me to Josh at a bar that night, he actually struck me as precisely the type of person with no reservations about sleeping with someone’s girlfriend given the chance. Though at the time, I hadn’t realized he’d been given that chance, and took it, just the night before.
Third: Holy shit hypocrisy — after we got back together [June 26th], Zoe more or less forbade me from associating with a female friend I’d been discussing some problem I was having trouble with (not even personal; about mapping vector fields onto non-orientable manifolds in n-space or some shit), who vaguely showed a tentative interest in me during our break-up.[[11]] Zoe was afraid that this friend, an immunocompromised fellow nerd with trauma problems, would try to sleep with me. On her own end, though (again, after we got back together), Zoe had no problem continuing to be friends with Robin and Nathan, both of whom not only showed an interest in her, but she actually screwed while we were dating. And — despite her strong principled stance against guys who cheat on their wives — she had no problem working for Josh after she found out he had a wife.
Fourth: At first I’m thinking “How was his having a wife the motivating factor in terminating that affair? How is that more important to her than her own boyfriend?” Then I’m thinking “Oh, it had nothing to do with me, she just didn’t want to do anyone skeezy enough to cheat on their significant other. Okay, yeah, I can totally relate to that. I can relate very well to that, actually.”
(In advance of any trilby-wearing e-sleuths, allow me to save you some time — yes, that means she was having sex with Josh Boggs right before he hired her. No, that doesn’t mean anyone’s going to risk their game’s success on an unqualified narrative designer for side benefits. Zoe is in fact a pretty solid narrative designer. And if there’s any significant fault to find in her narrative design, it’s that she never stops doing it.)
Anyway, amidst a lot of lying and a lot of being backed into corners and a lot of shows of remorse, she goes on to admit that she also cheated on me with Nathan way before we broke up [Apr 1st – 6th], and that right at the end of things with us [May 4th – 10th] they did considerably more than get cuddly, and she did in fact ostracize me and convince me I was going crazy simply so that she could fuck Nathan and that she did in fact make up the other two friends staying over her house that week so it would look less suspicious.
Yeah all of that stuff is super fucked and I should cry about it later — but seriously who the fuck just makes two people up??[[5]]
Just — what?
Somehow, her reason for all of this was that I had told her I’d never been in love with anyone before, and that while she told me she was in love with me two months into the relationship [February 15th], I didn’t say it back until a month later. And when I finally did, apparently I used the wrong tone [[6]]. So yes, obviously that means she should cheat on me with three guys for that month [she had sex with Josh, Nathan, and Robin throughout mid March to early April], and then continue adding guys to the roster every month thereafter. That’s obviously the thing someone should do.
I ask her if she even meant that argument she made about consent, and she says she did. I ask her how she could agree with that and do THIS (a ton of times with a bunch of guys), and she says she’s going to barf [[3]].
I don’t let her know how disgusted or disgusting I feel — it wouldn’t be a worthwhile conversation — and at this point I don’t know if she actually cares; or at least I’m certain she didn’t care enough to not do it.
I ask her how she could be willing to have sex with me without protection despite sharing my concern about STDs, how she could be selfish enough to do that guy after guy simply because she didn’t want me to find out. I try to figure out how all this could have come from the unflinchingly righteous and honest person I thought I fell in love with.
She tells me she got tested.
I ask how she got tested in the timespan between having sex with me at GDC, and Josh the previous night.
She admits she didn’t get tested[[4]]. And says I never deserved any of this.
I ask her how she can say she believes all of these things. How she can say that convincing your partner they’re going crazy just to enable your own fucked up behavior is intolerably painful — and then go on to do just that. [[7]]
How she can talk about how horrible being ostracized was for her as both a child and an adult — and go on to ostracize people whenever it suits her interests (she did this to Nathan as well).
How she can be so vocal about something as important as sexual consent and establish that infidelity violates it — and then go on to cheat.
How she can talk about how confusing and awful dishonesty can be — and lie through an entire relationship, to enable all of the other behaviors she criticized.
How she can keep lying even as I’m giving her the chance to fix what she now says is the most important thing in her life.
She says she doesn’t know how she can live with herself. She says she just tried commit suicide, and I tell her I’m coming back to the hotel to keep an eye on her. [[8]]
Citation Images: VERY LARGE.
[[1-8]]
Also do not open if you don’t want a giant wall of chat logs.
Act 1 TL;DR: Act 1 TL;DR: Act 1 TL;DR: Act 1 TL;DR: Act 1 TL;DR:
It turns out the panic attacks and anxiety I suffered for over a week were a direct result of her convincing me I was going insane — so that she could more easily cheat on me. Ultimately she cheated on me with Joshua Boggs (her boss, who is married), Robin Arnott, Nathan Grayson, as well as at least two others depending on how you’re counting. She says she *thinks* that’s everyone, but there were almost certainly more.
It turns out she doesn’t seem to care very much about following most (if any) of her own vocally expressed strong principled stances; she seems to just bring up whatever serves her purposes. Throughout the conversation she never reveals any more information than absolutely necessary, and actively lies until cornered.
She just short of demanded I stop hanging out with a friend going through a seriously fucked up time because she’s worried that friend will try to seduce me. But has no problem hanging out with the friends she’s been cheating on me with, and no problem working for the married man who had an affair with her.
It turns out (presuming you share her view that infidelity is a violation of sexual consent) she violated my consent for at least five months. And, with a straight face and impeccable air of sincerity, had pretty much no problem violating her proudly expressed principles 1, 2, and 3, through months of lying, manipulation, and ostracization in order to serve her own interests. Her excuse for all of this as it pertains to me in particular is that it sounded empty the first time I told her I loved her.
The logs have a few other examples (though not exhaustive) of her setting up strong principled stances for control, which, on her own end, she ignores entirely even *while* she is preaching. But you’ll have to read through them if you really want the details.
Before I found out, she’d take great pleasure in laying claim to the moral high ground at all times, denouncing anyone who would do anything she was secretly doing all of the time.
After I find out — she tells me she is attempting suicide, and I head over to the hotel to keep an eye on her
thezoepost 
It’s scary how exact the list of winning conditions when defending herself and getting you to back down matches what I have been through with a lying cheating girlfriend. I know the feeling of thinking you’re wrong and you’re insane and you are terrible for doubting the one you love. Glad to see you managed to get through to the other side.
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this all feels so familiar. i had an abusive and disloyal partner as well. the problem here isn’t just the cheating, though you focus on it a lot… the emotional abuse, at least to me, is even more starting. the hypocrisy is audacious enough, but even without that, the emotionally manipulative and obsessively passive-aggressively controlling & socially isolating behavior (basically dictating who you can interact with by way of elaborate emotional manipulation) would still be disturbing enough to warrant mistrusting this woman.
no wonder she thinks it’s none of anybody’s business… it’s not just her personal life, this is an expose of her true colors, which i’m sure she didn’t want anyone to see. people need to see this, though. you did the right thing by publishing all of this. people need to be protected from snakes like her.
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Fuck, I thought I had it bad dealing with this Payton Place *I* worked in as a computer grad. Back stabbing, full on mental assaults, backhanded compliments
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I’m writing this comment just to tell you how deeply sorry I feel for you. I’ve just finished reading your whole story and it has brought me to tears.
I admire your strength in bearing all the suffering that girl gave you. I want to express my solidarity and support to your healing and I wish all the best for you.
As others said, you did a precious job in putting online the description of her abusive, manipulative behaviour, in showing the lies and deceptive techniques she used, because this can help other people in recognizing the typical behaviour patterns of abusers.
Thanks.
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I absolutely second this comment. More people should thank you for the information.
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Holy shit. I came to this blog from a Daily Dot post that was pretty dismissive of you. And I quote “Despite its length, Gjoni’s post amounts to little more than the kind of nasty, post-breakup gripes spurned partners lament about with close friends.” Sorry, but no. This is not an ordinary post-breakup gripe. This is heartwrenching and I cannot express enough how bad I feel for you. This is absolutely shocking and I hope you came out of this a better person and not damaged. I thought people grew out of this kind of manipulative, shallow behavior in their teens, but I guess not. At any rate, stay strong my friend.
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It’s maddening how people aren’t able to see the tale of abuse as exactly that, simply because it doesn’t conform to the standard scenario. I guess you have to have been through it yourself, or have a really open mind.
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What happened with Zoe’s boss was a misappropriation of power leading to violation of her sexual agency, and depending on it’s precived unwelcomeness to her, her sexual harrasment and assault. She needed legal advice, councilling and support, not shaming, concern about damage to her reputation or further harassment. It becomes unlikely given the power imbalance that it could truly be informed consent. (See Meritor Saving bank vs Vinson, 477 US 57 (1986) http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=477&invol=57)
By being a victim of this sexual misappropriation, the implications for her were her sexual agency, the right to define herself as a non-sexual or sexual being in her relationships had been violated, meaning she was intrinsically told her no was meaningless and her value was in her sexuality. Then, when she was drunk, two situations where she was vulnerable and again not able to give informed consent, her already deteriated view of her sexual agency was again violated by two men who knew she was in a relationship violating her again, by sleeping with her while she was intoxicated and inable to give informed consent.
This is less about you, which I can’t believe you made it about, (how can she be cheating on you if she wasn’t in a position to give informed consent) and more about her victimisation and abuse at the hands of guys who should be held to account. She was clearly in a vulnerable position, and wanted to hold on to someone she clearly was emotionally attached to, despite the fact you clearly had trust issues and resentful tendencies, along with the inability to clearly see the bigger picture in all this. For you to spin it any other way, and make it about your being cheated on is ridiculous. Yes, you should be hurt, but it wasn’t her that hurt you. It was the actions of the men who essentially raped your girlfriend.
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He was not her boss when the relationship started. She convinced him to hire her after they had a sexual relationship. And their relationship continued for quite a while. The only extent to which she might have been unable to give informed consent was limited to the fact that he hadn’t told her he was married.
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Was she in a position where she was seeking to be gainfully employed? If she was, it still would constitute sexual harrasment. Without knowing the details I can’t comment, but it sounds fishy, and that’s why I said it sounds like it’s a breach of sexual agency, unless he was just an ex.
I’m guessing she went to meet someone as a peer, as an equal, in a non-sexual context, viewing it as a networking opportunity, and he instead saw her in a sexual light, as a conquest, which is unfortunately common. The fact he would willingly risk his marriage and lie about it to her indicates he was acting fraudulently, which as you may concede indicated a misrepresentation which violated her ability to sexually consent.
Either way, it’s a tragic situation, and one he needs to be brought to account on, more than her.
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Yes. Luckily, if you google his name now, his infidelity is the first result.
That said, it really wasn’t a situation of violating her consent if she was the one who convinced him to hire her. To my knowledge, their first sexual encounter was weeks in advance of any discussions about hiring her.
And regardless of your opinions on that particular relationship, it doesn’t account for the other people she cheated on me with. Where prospect of employment was not in question.
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The more I read the more disappointed I am. If reports are correct, Zoe has ADHD, which can affect sufferer’s ability to communicate how they are feeling in high stress situations, due to the underdevelopment of the frontal lobe. She also had a history of depression.
You would probably be familiar with the fact 4chan has lead people to suicide before following their harrasment of people. Knowing this, and their ability to Dox people, you gave them a sob story inciting them to about a disabled girl who has a biological predisposition to self-harm who acted consistently with her disability, which is already documented online, believing you were protecting people from her? You also claim this was pre-meditated, that you didn’t do it in a fit of rage, but rather dwelled on it and it’s social consequences for a month.
So many questions raised, but seriously, how can you claim this was an act of love. A lot of this is about control, your trust issues, revenge and your inability to deal with things like an adult. I hope you’re now getting help for these, maybe some good can come of this.
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I never claimed this was an act of love.
And I also have ADHD. So if you’re going to excuse her for it, then you’ll probably have to do the same for me.
I didn’t only dwell on it, I also consulted with at least 10 other people as to whether or not this was an acceptable course of action.
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Oh, come the fuck on. She essentially raped him, by her own principles no less. Absolutely NOTHING excuses that. Or else I guess we gotta be cool with rapists who were abused as children since that probably caused it.
As a rape victim, this is incredibly offensive. There is a huge difference between a boss blackmailing/pressuring someone who cannot afford to go elsewhere for employment, and someone hoping maybe someday they might be able to make money off of this person. So if I fuck someone to gain their trust and then rob them blind can I claim rape since I only did it for the $$ and I might have *needed* that? You are hugely minimizing/mocking rape victims to make this comparison.
And even without tackling that ridiculousness, your painting of the situation is completely skewed based on the chat logs presented. If you think it is “normal” and “vulnerable” to engage in the longterm and elaborate emotional isolation and manipulation and projection presented in {11}, I feel really bad for your romantic partners.
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I agree. I’ve been led down the primrose path, and it’s left me with tons of problems I never dreamed I’d get to live with for the rest of my life. The people who do this sort of thing to their partners, male or female (equality, after all) should not be hunted with torch and pitchfork, but neither should we just whip out our hankies and cry for the poor darlings.
People who’ve been victimized bear a terrible burden, but as adults (and I, as an adult that has been abused) must still remember that we must accept that burden as our own, and work to make ourselves better, and do everything we can to refrain from passing on the hellish “gift” of abuse. Absolving Ms. Quinn, who clearly hasn’t learned to reign in her demons, isn’t helping her or anyone. EG isn’t being hateful, insofar as I can tell, as much as he’s revealing and showing evidence of the situation. If my situation was deeply rooted in media, as well as mired in big dollar unethical behavior, I’d have done the same.
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go fuck yourself you white knight piece of shit. i hope every woman you have relations with plays the same exact manipulative, conniving head games as this bitch did with this poor guy. the first girlfriend i ever head and the first girl i ever slept with did the exact same thing. it has scarred me for life. i am distrusting and paranoid with women because of this and ruined good relationships because of the trauma the bitch caused me. men can cause physical pain, but women are far worst, they cause mental and emotional pain. they attack you where you cannot defend and make you hurt yourself (making you think you’re crazy, etc.). so quit acting like some fucking lawyer and go fucking shove a stick up your ass to stop all this shit coming out. Eron, you did the right thing. we need to expose these sluts because i’m sick and tired of feminists putting the blame on men when bitches do this kind of shit. I am so sorry you had to go through this. it was gut wrenching reading this yet also healing in that i feel your pain and can relate. stay strong brother, don’t listen to these fucking cuckold feminist guys.
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@thezoepost: If by chance you happen to see this comment I was wondering what your thoughts are about Zoe’s article on Cracked?
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The parts that relate to me or this blog are a ton of bullshit. She knows very well that this has nothing to do with her sex life and everything to do with the extent to which she misrepresents herself to her fans and professional/personal acquaintances for her own gain. She also keeps perpetuating the “jilted ex” thing in what I can only assume is an effort to discredit my claims. Though anyone who bothers to read the blog would know I’m the one who dumped her. I’m also surprised that she uses the word “alleged”, as if the blog didn’t consist of a fuck ton of proof. Documentation is a few orders of magnitude more believable than allegation.
She’s lied about a bunch of other things in the wake of the fallout too. At one point, she claimed I gave 4chan a .rar of her nudes. Knowing full well that I never had access to anything like that.
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You consulted ten people about whether to put this blog together? Obviously it wasn’t ten therapists as they would have told you not to do it and gave their advice on how to move on without resorting to making everything public. I hadn’t mentioned this before due to hoping you would have come to your senses, but I’ve been a therapist for twelve years now with experience in depression and abuse. This blog had been brought to my attention by a few colleagues when they were discussing the fact that you are both victims (I’ll explain this at the end). Yes, what she did to you is abuse, but airing all this is teetering on the edge of psychological abuse because it could cause her anxiety, possibly compound any depression she may have, or (and this is an extreme case scenario) post-traumatic stress disorder.
I’ve seen you keep saying that this blog has nothing to do with her sex life or cheating on you, but rather to paint a picture of what kind of person she is. You have apparently told yourself this enough and have had enough enablers support your view that you truly believe that, but it is further from the truth. This whole blog is hinged on showing what kind of person she is by using her sexual misconduct and abusive nature towards you as proof. That is what makes the blog look like it is a “jilted lover seeking revenge”, but as I said the revenge angle is subjective to the person that reads this blog.
You have said on a few occasions that including her sexual misconduct painted the picture and couldn’t be painted without it. If this was just about her being a liar, you could have easily painted that picture by showing her misconduct in the industry like you did with The Fine Young Capitalists entry. You could have pointed out that she was in a relationship (as that would have implied sexual without actually saying it) with a reviewer that gave her a positive review, if you wanted to truly be a whistleblower on the corruption in game journalism. This blog is about her sex life because if you removed that aspect you would have one or two entries. A simple process of elimination shows that it is about her sex life and cheating because if you removed the sexual misconduct and cheating your blog would fall apart.
My professional advice would be to approach this from another angle. Researching this, there is tons of evidence flying around that paints the same picture without labeling her as a slut or whore as your blog does (whether it be directly or implying). From a therapist standpoint, there are some major signs that has me concerned about her well being and worried that the blog may be compounding the issue. Compulsive liars always have bits of truth in their lies and if she was honest about her father being a compulsive liar, then she is just emulating what she grew up seeing. It is the same principle of a child growing up around an abusive parent being more likely to be abusive to their significant other when they get older. The other sign that has me worried is the multiple partners as that is a sign of possible aftermath from sexual abuse as a child. I’ve read many cases where the child, as an adult, wouldn’t come out about the sexual abuse until decades after the abuser had passed away. She needs to see a therapist in her city who can help her and someone that she can depend on to be her emotional support. If she is doing this only for personal gain, then that is sad, but I am concerned there are underlying issues that need to be addressed and this blog is definitely going in the wrong direction for getting her that help. That is why I wish you would have decided against this blog, but now that is it out there, there is no taking it back. You both are victims, make no mistake about it, she is a victim due to what she grew up with and you are a victim because of what she put you through due to her upbringing.
If you listen to anything I say listen to this….Please just find peace for yourself and be happy.
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The other allegations came about *after* and as a result of the blog, so it’s not like I could have known about them when writing the blog. As it stands though, the blog has helped too many people, and paints a portrait of her character that makes the other misdeeds considerably more difficult to dismiss.
And no, it certainly wasn’t ten therapists. As therapists are, by repeated exposure, generally more liable to be worried more about the emotional state of the sorts of people who are likely to go to them for help, than they are about the emotional state of the potential victims of those people.
I know I know I know I know that people think this is about the cheating. Because people assume a lot about in terms of neuronormativity. But, I suppose as a therapist, I’m curious as to what your analysis of my motivation is considering some things I haven’t said about myself (but will soon). I’d be interested to talk to you, if you’re willing to email me:
rufsketch1@gmail.com
I agree with your analysis that posting the blog can cause her mental anguish. But labeling that as abuse means anyone who outs a hypocritical public figure is being abusive. As is basically anyone who outs an abuser. Basically, the argument strikes me as mere semantics. In general, abuse is used to imply attempts to control a partner in ways that make them dependent on you. This does the exact opposite of that. It just distances her from me more.
The blog stays up, because at the very most it gets her to stay in therapy and warn the people she might abuse. And at the very least it warns them for her, and lets her fans know the minimum extent to which she betrays the activism she rose to prominence claiming to uphold. I will take it down when I’m convinced she’s no longer a danger.
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Therapists do focus on emotions, but we also have to think about the aftermath and potential victims. For example, if a client I’m helping reveals they are abusing their children or elderly parent or planning to do a mass killing, then by law I’m required to call the proper authorities and report that kind of behavior even if they are only “thinking about doing it”. It is better to try and avoid creating potential victims where it is obvious rather than allow someone to just go ahead and deal with the expected fallout after. Bullying on her isn’t your fault, obviously, but it is a sad reality with our times and as you have seen some will try to pin it on you for outing her (again, not your fault).
Yes, this is borderline psychological abuse, but only borderline as from what I can see from your replies you are legitimately just wanting to warn people so she doesn’t abuse others like she did you. I’m not going to lie though, we are human, and I know there is a small portion of you that emotionally got some vindication from this because of the hurt she caused you and that is only natural. If you had been a client, I would have advised against this, but if you had still insisted on doing it..I would have told you to write each article and let me proof it and give you advice on how to warn others and protect her partners before you published them. Her cheating definitely shows that she lied on being loyal to you, on being with one person, etc., but I would have recommended code names for all her partners, blurred out their real names, and inserted the code names. This blog is about her and while the fallout of bullying and such towards her can’t be avoided, we could have avoided the fallout toward her partners.
Let me explain a little more on a few things I left out before. Some things in the blog makes me question the willingness of her partners. You pointed out that one knew you were dating her, but I wonder about what he knew since she is a compulsive liar as she could have told all of them she was broke up with you. Another thing, I wonder if when she slept with them was there always alcohol, then it makes me wonder two things about this. Firstly, makes me think she gets drunk to numb herself to what she is about to do (again, a sign of sexual abuse). Secondly, makes me wonder if she does it to lower their inhibitions because alcohol impairs judgement, meaning the men could have been unable to say no or fight off her advances. I’m playing devil’s advocate there, but I want to make it clear, that while the saying is “It takes two to tango”, if she impaired their judgement at each time of intercourse then she basically raped them because they couldn’t legally consent to the action. One last scenario to consider, you were dating her for a few months, and you thought exclusively up until the cheating came out, but that may not have been true. This behavior doesn’t just spring up, so I also have to consider the possibility that she may have been dating one of them or someone entirely different and started cheating with you, but you just happened to be the one that outed her.
I wish abuse was so black and white, but even just the act of walking up to a complete stranger and calling them a “stupid sh*t” or some other demeaning name is verbal abuse even if it is just one time and you never see them again. It only becomes psychological abuse (in this case and the cases you provided) if it does cause her anxiety, depression, etc. and that would be hard to prove, but I just wanted to let you know so you had all your bases covered.
I won’t email you because the discussions there could be viewed as therapy sessions and since I don’t have my own private practice it could get me in trouble with the office I currently work in.
As for the removing this blog, it wouldn’t do any good. I got to thinking about it and I’m sure that archiving sites have likely archived the entire blog. I do agree that this blog is helping others, does warn about her (even if I disagree with the naming of partners), and has clearly shown from your replies that you didn’t do this out of an evil or revenge scheme. My advice will simply be here to help give others something to think about if they are in your situation, but are considering the revenge route.
My comments and interpretations of her are purely based off signs that I have seen in the text and aren’t to be considered a defense for her. Rather it is to make those who are bullying her to pause and think as well as give you some hindsight to think back and see if you think of any signs that may support my theories or create some of your own. You will continue to do the blog (I understand that), but from your replies I can see my original assessment of you was wrong and that you are trying to protect her at the same time as warn everyone about her. I’m sure she is hurt and upset over the bullying, but you can’t control what the ill-informed readers do with the information you have given.
Let’s hope she gets help and I hope you can and have moved past the hurt she caused you. Good luck in all your future endeavours. Above all else, don’t let her actions ruin your future relationships. Abuse can make the abused weary of relationships and have trust issues in future relationships. I hope that you and others have been able to take something away from the advice I’ve given.
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Yes. Let’s hope she gets better.
That said, the cheating wasn’t due to alcohol unfortunately. As she admitted to cheating emotionally as well (flirting with the people she slept with and doing I miss you’s and what not [its in the logs]. And planning trips to see them in advance).
All of the parties who I named did know she was dating me. I was personally introduced to them. And noted their responses when I asked her to tell them that she was going to avoid seeing them for a while because I had found out about the cheating.
As for this only borderlining abuse, yeah, I agree that the examples here are light and readable. I didn’t include any logs from the weeks of gaslighting I was subjected to, as they are exceedingly triggering to me, and based on what I know now, I would imagine to many others.
However, about a month ago, I gave those logs to the person making the emotional abuse video series, so that might end up giving a clearer picture once the gaslighting episode is published.
Here is the series if you’re interested, btw.
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I will definitely keep an eye on this for any new matters that come around. As I will definitely watch that series. Be well.
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Here are some new matters that have come around.
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The thing that concerns me out of her evidence is that it shows that she has apparently been doing what she did to you for seven plus years now. Since she said the guy she was with was her husband at that time (which can be taken two ways). One way could be that she is really married and cheating on him with everyone. Second way, and more likely, he was another guy, like you, that she tricked into loving her and tore him apart in the same manner. If she has been doing it for this long, I fear that she won’t bother getting help, but instead just wait for this to die down and pick her next victim and seeing that she used other names I think she will start using false names in the future to cover her tracks. She has become so accustom to lying and backing out of things I don’t think she could function or even learn to function if she tried to stop. This blog has become more vital than I had originally thought it would have been and while I still stand by not naming the men she cheated on you with, I now see (rather clearly in fact), that she will never stop and this may be the only way to truly protect people from her.
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Eron, I want to apologize to you. I kept hoping there was part of the story we were missing to explain everything and shed light on Ms. Quinn’s behavior, but after everything that has come out I realize there is no missing aspect of the story and that I was just blindly playing devil’s advocate looking for what simply wasn’t there. I hope you don’t hold it against me as it is in my nature to try and find the best in everyone and it appears there truly is nothing good about her. This won’t mean much after all I said, but I’m sorry for what she did to you. Given the evidence, I’d say she is a lost cause.
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I don’t hold it against you, and honestly have the same tendency to look for the best in people.
Thanks for keeping an open mind in either case.
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This has got to be the creepiest thing I have ever read. Other than names and places, this is pretty much the exact thing that happened with my ex and I. When I say exact, I mean the brain damage bit, almost identical conversations, identical incidents, everything.
The avoidance, the redirection of blame, making someone question their own sanity because “how could you possibly think something like that of me?”, the accusations of you doing the same thing, forcing you to ostracize yourself from all of your friends so that only they have access to you. To see you go through the same things, to see those same manipulative sentences be spoken to another human is both heart breaking and eye opening.
My incident carried on for over 6 years and involved children. I’m glad you will never have to know what that amount of time with someone mind fucking you will do. I’m sorry for everything that has happened. Know that there are plenty of us out there that have experienced the same thing. The one positive, now you know what to look for in people. These posts have really opened my eyes to the fact that the behavior of these monsters is almost identical regardless of the people and places involved. They all use the same tactics.
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The most damaging part is how much you begin to question everything about yourself. You begin to believe everything you are told, and you lose who you really are. You begin to start thinking you can’t make decisions without them, that you don’t know any better. You take common sense as absurdity, and that the world is perfect and you’re just paranoid or delusional. You lose everything and it’s almost impossible to get yourself back.
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I like the way you handled that “Bob” character and his “come to the defense of the indefensible” argument, trying to turn this all on you. You’re a big man Eron. Much bigger than me. During your chats you talked to her for much to long imo, However, I can understand as it was fresh and you wanted to forgive her or at the very least, get closure.
One could assume you’re doing this because you’re a jilted lover. One could take you for your word that this is a public service announcement. I don’t generally see things as black/white, either/or, so it’s probably a combination of both and, in my opinion, there’s nothing wrong with that. At least you’re healing and, more importantly, learning from this.
Well wishes sir
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one word epic, the media is portraying her to be the victim but every normal person who has read this knows otherwise
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OMG! I ended up linking to this story from an article about everything that this post has caused to be done to this girl. So, I did come in with a preconceived notion about it being unfair to her and that you were probably spinning things to put her in a more negative light and just being a baby and vindictive. Then I read through to part 2, including all of the links and chats and some of the comments etc. etc. So, ok she obviously was cheating, manipulating, lying etc. etc. HOWEVER, Jesus dude GET OVER IT!! You played your part and both of you are acting like perpetual victims! Not to mention displaying all the maturity of a couple of head game playing 16 year olds! Wow, do either of you actually work or do anything other than sit around and pretend to understand everything wrong with society while displaying ALL OF THE TRAITS THAT constitute the things that are WRONG WITH SOCIETY???
I mean ok, everyone has had their heart broken and I’m sure most people can relate on some level and maybe this whole thing served a purpose and was cathartic for you but wallowing in all of the things that were said, implied, texted, chatted, the timelines, the just all consuming re-hash of the destructive, all consuming nature of the 5 MONTH, not 5 YEAR, FIVE MONTH relationship seriously can not be healthy for you or anyone! Now that you have done what you set out to do, honestly dude, you should pull this crap down and go on with your life.
Also, it’s SOOOO hypocritical to call someone selfish and evil and yada, yada, yada when ,imho, you drug her boss’s wife into this and if anyone is “innocent” and “a victim” wouldn’t it be HER!!??? Is that fucking fair to put her marital problems all over the Internet for her family, friends, colleagues to read about like that???? By naming HIM you named HER!!! God, I hope this poor woman doesn’t have children. They have?, had? a MARRIAGE and probably a WEDDING that her family paid for and they stood up and took vows and you have created a situation where the NEWS AND MEDIA has covered this and now EVERYONE KNOWS talk about CONSENT!!????? Did she CONSENT to be publicly humiliated because you and Zoe had a 5 MONTH mind fuck and you got your feelings hurt by a girl you met on OKCUPID????? Wow.
I’m actually shocked that you and Zoe didn’t stay together FOREVER , you seem perfect for each other. Guess the world dodged a bullet there since now we don’t have to worry about the two of you procreating and raising more whiny, selfish, “victims” that would go out and involve EVERYONE AROUND THEM in a media, Internet driven SHITSTORM every time they got their panties in a wad because not everything in the world is puppies and fucking rainbows.
Dude, she cheated, she lied, she manipulated you, that SUCKS!!! You let it happen, played the game and kept it going. Move on. Grow up. Quit laying fucking waste to everyone around both of you. Wow, you both seem like the epitome of TOXIC!!!
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I agree with you on the Boss’s wife bit. I don’t know if it caused her harm or not, but I do often feel quite bad about the possibility. To some extent, I would probably feel better if I knew in either direction. The wondering kills me.
The rest of your comment though, I think is a bit undeserved. But, different people place different precedence on different moral questions, so, I suppose I understand where you’re coming from.
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If I could reply, I would, but I must leave a basic comment in order to at least inform you despite wanting to be able to tell the therapist you spoke with as well. About the names of the men Zoe cheated on you with, I don’t believe their names should have been censored, with the only possible exception being Nathan (though I may have misinterpreted his possible victimization with the fact he was lied to as well) because I believe they should be shown to the public for the type of person they are to help protect others, even if a smaller amount than it is with Zoe. Every person counts right? That’s really all I wanted to say, any supportive comments have already said enough that it shouldn’t be necessary for me to add to it. They speak for me, albeit unintentionally.
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As my sons might say “Dude, you are seriously fucked up, you should have ditched that skank the first time she cheated on you.”
In fact, she’s an obvious loon of the highest degree, I would have avoided her like the plague, and not just sexually,
It may not sound it, but mean this kindly, and it’s the advice of a man who’s spent 66 years on this Earth, and some terrific and some bad relationships with women,
If a woman cheats on you, and you forgive her, she’ll treat you like shit forever, The only time a woman cheated on me (that I know of) I felt zero inclination to see her again or get back into bed with her.
Forgive my anonymity, but I only use me FB account for posting comment on MSM sites, much of it politically incorrect, and politically incorrect comment can land you in jail here in Britain, as we don’t have the protection of your wonderful 1st Amendment.
I don’t do games, and I think that, judging from conversation with those who do, a preoccupation (or addiction to them, to be more precise in many cases) is very unhealthy.
Despite my lack of knowledge of gaming, I found your gaming metaphor a very effective enjoyable literary quirk, but even more so I was intrigued to see that your mental processes to analyse real-life relationships kinds holds up quite well. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised, I boxed for years, and I find boxing a very useful metaphor for much of life–certainly those areas of conflict in our personal lives and to analyse any conflict, as they all seem to follow much the same basic rules, be it two men duking it out, or state of the art aircraft, warships tanks or even a debate.
I only arrived her because as a long-time anti-feminist activist, I read a piece on your ex. In my years of life I learned that there are many toxic women (toxic men too, but as I don’t have anything other than friendships with men, they never figured in my love life as a problem)
Learn to identify toxic women and keep the hell away from them, All Radfems are toxic, and not just to men, but whatever you do, don’t let them sour you against normal women. SJW women of any stripe are way to weird and bigoted to (literally) trouble yourself with, the SJW tag is truly Orwellian double-speak, they wouldn’t recognise social justice if it slapped them in the face.
Sorry to be so preachy, but some times we need to swallow some bitter pills to stay healthy.
Best to you,
G.
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Though it has very little bearing on anything in your life now, you should be aware that in all likelihood you were cheated on several more times than you think. A person like Zoe will sleep with a guy whenever she feels compelled to fill some emotional need on any given day. Unfortunately for men who date women, a moderately attractive girl can find a willing partner in basically ever bar in the country. It was YEARS before I knew the true bodycount. In some cases the guys actually approached me to apologize because they weren’t aware we were together at the time. Other times friends would decide to tell me that they had been holding back knowledge (sometimes of MULTIPLE people). I couldn’t blame them, because they knew that I already knew cheating was an issue. Reading those chat logs was cathartic for me. I confronted her in the EXACT SAME WAY where she was trying to figure out which guy you knew about. I just recently found out that this girl tried to sleep with her own best friend’s husband, because “why does she get to be happy?!” He’s too afraid to tell his wife, because he (correctly) fears she will try to manipulate and twist things around to poison his marriage. I’m currently trying to help him tell his wife, but we’re going to need to establish an iron-clad plan to ensure he’s believed. One more person to be liberated from her B.S.
Thanks for doing this. I helped me to let go of so much doubt/guilt.
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Seems like you ran into an immature and shitty human being. There is one other winning scenario for the BF-being-played — trust your instinct and do not ask for explanations. Do not feed into redeeming the player and take more damage. Once someone has admitted to cheating ONE time, that should be the end. That first time is when a person’s true moral compass is exposed… or she is just not into you to not cheat… and all the comeback is purely for redemption and feeling-good. Do Not. Feed. Into. It.
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Zoë seems to be a typical narcissist, a ‘crazymaker’ I’ve had the same kind of experiences with my ex.
Took a long time to recover (from this PTSD), with much help from youtube-sites like “understanding narcissists’, ‘self-care haven’. And many talks with really interested own family, because you feel to be reprogrammed.
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