I dated Zoe Quinn. I thought she was the most amazing, kind hearted person in the world.
Turns out she was bullshitting pretty much everything I fell in love with her for, and is actually an unbelievable jerk. She lied to and manipulated me for months — effortlessly — because it was not believable that someone could be that selfish of a person, that convincing of a liar, and that good of a manipulator, while completely ignoring the very principles she so adamantly espoused. So I dumped her. Here’s some stuff she did / does in no particular order or tense [which you can verify using the chatlog images in the footer of Act 1]:
- Spend quite a bit of time talking about how she would never ever cheat on anyone because that violates sexual consent — all the while cheating on me
- With Nathan Grayson
- And Robin Arnott
- And Joshua Boggs
- (who is both her boss and married)
- And at least two other people (whose names are censored). And very probably more — but I won’t get into why I believe that.
- As opposed to informing Joshua’s wife, primarily freak out about her own career if his wife goes public.
- Do her goddamn hardest to make sure I didn’t sleep with anyone but her while we were broken up. Inevitably succeed.
- Sleep with a bunch of people while we were broken up, ignoring all of the strong principled stances she used to convince me not to.
- Pretend we didn’t need to use protection whenever we had sex while we were broken up
- or while we were together
- Basically demand I ostracize a friend who was going through some seriously fucked up shit, because that friend had sort of showed a tentative interest in me while we were broken up.
- On her own end though, apparently have no problem choosing to work for Joshua Boggs after cheating on me with him (which I feel requires a bit more than a tentative interest), or after finding out about his wife.
- Spend an hour arguing that she would never lie in a relationship — while she was lying about all of the things in our relationship.
- Stop at pretty much no length to prevent me from finding out the truth. If I had to lose 10 pounds to bouts of panic attacks spent questioning my own sanity for a sleepless week of being ostracized so she could spend that time cheating on me — well, that’s unfortunate for me, but the important thing was that I not be around to make things awkward between her and the flavor of the week.
- Totally make two people up to divert suspicion from the fact that she was fucking Nathan. Seriously, she just — she made two people up. This probably doesn’t deserve its own list item but like, the claim that there were two additional people crashing with her was one of the things that made me think I couldn’t possibly have been right to worry during the panic attack week because who the hell would just fabricate . . . PEOPLE?
- Later go on to ostracize Nathan for a week simply so she could fuck some other guys.
- Have unprotected sex with me like 12 freaking hours after cheating on me with her boss.
- Express remorse really damn well, really damn often, and only about the specific thing she has been caught doing. That is, express no remorse about any of the very related things she hasn’t been caught doing yet.
- Lie in literally the same breath she is expressing remorse about having lied. Which isn’t to say her remorse is fake, I can’t know if it is or isn’t, it sure *looks* and *sounds* real enough. It’s just to say that her remorse doesn’t actually mean anything in terms of future intent. She’ll promise never to do something again in a fit of despair and regret, and then do that thing like an hour later.
- Lie a fucking LOT. Like holy shit how much more can one person possibly lie. At one point she actually lies about a lie about a lie about a lie.
- A bunch of other fucked up things which I’m not even going to bother researching the legal ramifications of telling you about.
- After making a grand show of remorse and expressing a desire to make all of this up to me, go on to ostracize me, because doing the right thing and making it up to me isn’t worth the risk that I might go public with any additional admissions if we have to talk things out online.
- Be really fucking good at pretending to be worth looking up to.
TL;DR of TL;DR: Seriously, you really don’t want to trust Zoe Quinn.
246 thoughts on “TL;DR:”
And you haven’t gone public why?
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This story captured my attention from the first paragraph to the point I was finishing it seated in my dark office almost an hour after everyone else had left for the day.
It took me the entire drive home for me to fully understand the effect this story was having on me, but it finally dawned on me as I thought back over the chat logs. Every lie you believed, every time you gave her the benefit of the doubt, every new lie fabricated to cover up the unravelling threads of her deceptions…I had seen all of this before, six years ago when it was me being played for a fool, when it was my fiancée spinning the web.
If you ever want someone to commiserate with, someone who has been there and done that as it were, please don’t hesitate to reach out. Your story has truly resonated with me and I’d be happy to share my own experiences, whatever they might be worth.
I’ve been there. I went through the same exact thing, and two years later, I’m still messed up over it. I’ve been in other relationships since, but the damage stayed even through those ones. I was weaved into a web of lies like this one. I thought that I was the only one who went through something like this. It makes me feel less alone. Thanks.
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I sat fixated for over an hour reading this, feeling every gut wrenching moment. I’ve been there. I’ve experienced that pain. Reading that made me relive it all over again. You’ve done a great service to every person out there who has gone through such an ordeal. Keep your chin up, think positive thoughts, you’re the better person and you will get through this. If I wasn’t on the other side of the world I’ll buy you a drink and let you talk for as long as you wanted.
You’re better than her.
I have also been there. My chest went tight and bp went through the roof reading this in its entirety. The boldfaced lies, manipulation, promiscuity for personal gain, all of it hits home. To the OP: be glad she is out of your life, and do your best to move on and learn from it. I’m sure someone that’s actually worth your time will come along in due time. There’s someone for everyone.
I’ll be pouring out a couple doubles in your honor.
You’re a terrible writer and I can’t even finish it. Why is this a list? You “very probably” should proofread things before you post them.
I’m really glad you understand and are vocal about what really matters in all this.
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I wonder how long after this went public it’ll take her to start messaging him. This was a very entertaining read.
And once again with nailing the salient point…
I’m glad this is over for you, i hope you learn from this and don’t stick around for abusive relationships like that.
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I want to drink with you sometime. I feel for you man.
We need a good strong whisky and a pack of Cubans
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I cannot believe I looked up to her. The textbook emotional manipulation, trying to absolve herself and make you feel guilty after you called her out, and just…ugh, the overall shittiness of what she did astounds me. A depressed ex of mine used very similar excuses when we broke up (although our situation is completely different), and all your posts really hit with me. I really hope your story gets more visibility because everyone kinda needs to read this about her.
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I’m usually not the guy who leans on one side in relationship problems, but I’ll have to make an exception in this case, considering the evidence and your research.
At some point I was starting to wonder if you’re not taking this too far and obsessing yourself over it, but in the end it seems that you were rather accurate. She seems to have a lot of problems of her own, which doesn’t justify the constant behaviour, though. And her refusing to keep the appointments serious just shows how she doesn’t give a shit about trying to get better, she enjoys her life just fine. Pretty much what I consider a subhuman, I don’t want to know how many other guys fell to her shenanigans.
As you say that it was your first love I hope you can recover from it, this will probably be a huge setback and I don’t dare to compare my (solely) negative relationship experience with it. Even though I’m a failure at close relationships, I’m worried that the paranoia (justified in this case) will set roots in you and hinder future relationships.
I only wish you the best, keep your head up.
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Wow, the word hypocrite just doesn’t do her justice and holy crap Kotaku! They already had a pretty slimy reputation in the gaming community but I cant believe so many of the people there are complete sleaze bags. It was heart breaking to read that you truly loved her and even when you gave her a chance to come clean and build some trust she still lied to you. Leaving her was the right call because from what you wrote it seemed like the lying would never end. You didn’t deserve this dude (no one does) but at least you’re free now.
Also don’t listen to Doug this was pretty well written especially for something that left you feeling like emotional wreck like this probably did.
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Ok, yeah. The conversations you had with her while you were dating were extremely manipulative. It was like an episode of Beverly Hills 90210 but with a supposedly grown woman. I’m sorry- at some point you have to realize that your actions are no one’s fault but your own, no matter what your past is. She’s 27 for crying out loud. The reason she kept blaming her actions on past relationships was because it worked. That being said, around act 4 or 5, you started bringing it on yourself by continuing that whole thing. I get it- decent people don’t want to believe someone can actually be that shitty and then, after knowing how shitty it is, continue to behave in the same lying, manipulative manner. But now you know that they can. People aren’t going to be good people just because you want it bad enough. By the way, closure is overrated. And if you’re trying to get it from someone who does nothing but lie to you, it’s not even going to really be closure because they’re just going to lie about it. It’s like a nasty cycle- you want closure for their lying and manipulating, and in turn they do the same thing. You can’t trust them to give you any reason that isn’t self serving. But it looks like you finally realized that. Good for you. Do your best to distance yourself from her but never forget the lessons she’s taught you.
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There is no lesson to be taught from her to be learnt at all. The only thing this situation is doing is making him in the long run, realize how much of a good person he is and boost his confidence about how he’s not one of those sub tier humans that dwell on others. She’s going to get more depressed, hate herself while continuing her shitty behaviour, thus a never ending cycle of her misery. While on the other hand he’ll move on, be glad he experienced this and come out with a stronger sense of self concept. Obviously im talking about the long run, but is always the best interest of an individual.
So it seems like she’s not concerned with hurting people. And that’s whatever. I wouldn’t want to be friends with her. But I don’t get how this is anybody’s business but your own.
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It’s the business of everyone else she might hurt.
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Ordinarily I’d agree with you but if you ask me its not a stretch to call their relationship abusive. She lied to him constantly, threatened to leave him when he became justifiably suspicious of her actions , had sex with him after sleeping with other guys and possibly exposed him to STDs, tried to control his social life and forced him to distance himself from another girl with her own problems because she had expressed minor interest in him, and tried to guilt trip him and said he didn’t trust her when he tried to learn the full extent of her deceit.
So yeah ordinarily I’d say there’s no real justification to air your EXs dirty laundry but what Zoe did is abusive and I think he’s doing the public a service by getting the truth out there.
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Silence is how abusers and manipulators are able to continue abusing and manipulating people. And all that supposed “harassment,” and “sexism” and whatnot she was supposedly “bravely” suffering sure was everyone’s business, wasn’t it?
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Because she has a twitter/tumblr whatever following over ~19k followers, and some percentage (seems like a lot) follow her because she’s this huge proponent of moral justice/equality/add whatever strong moral stances and she’s literally lying to all of these people that support her, in some cases monetarily. She’s not just an exceedingly shitty human being, but someone that’s manipulating people into fighting for her. People need to know, especially her followers.
She is seriously fucked up. That does not absolve her in any way, of course, but looks like that pathological liar she told you about raised another pathological liar. She’s a damn good manipulator.
Otherwise, well, that’s a timeless narrative: a holier-than-though moral crusader who is secretely a cheat and liar. Been around since people invented religion.
I feel for you, man.
Normally I wouldn’t care about this but a few points (for me, as a feminist, equalist, forward-thinker);
– She didn’t want you helping out a friend with depression, despite trying to be the poster girl for depression
– She cheated on you and then had unprotected sex. That’s what makes someone the worst person in the world. You’re contributing to the spread of diseases and putting innocent people at risk. By all means if you’re in a relationship and want to bang someone else; do so, just take precautions for fucks sake.
– Banging journalists to further yourself? It’s bad when anyone does it. The reputations of all those people are now worthless.
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Holy Shit. Reading this is heart-wrenching to me. I truly hope that she never finds happiness, and that you find the ability to trust someone in the future. Relationships like this are emotionally crippling.
I wish there was some way to toss you a cold one over the Internet.
I wish you the best in getting over all of this.
Dude should have a Bitcoin address on here. I’d donate a 6-pack to it.
Was the monogamy presumed? I don’t think it’s right to automatically assume you are entering into something monoagmous, because it means different things to different people. Maybe she was a swinger, or a believer in polyamory. You don’t own her, nor she you. I find it funny how socially we condone players, as “boys will be boys”, but if a woman plays she’s a slur and gets condemned because “it’s not lady-like”. The Fruedian Madonna-whore double standard.
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The monogamy was explicitly stated.
I have no issue with polyamorous relationships, so long as everyone involved is aware they are in one.
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If someone is a swinger or Polyamorous they are typically up front about it. Stop white knighting and defending someone who admitted they intentionally deceived and cheated on him. Did you even read the entire thing? The defense of “YOU’RE SLUT-SHAMING!” is not viable when the person /enters an explicit monogamous relationship/. Both men and women need to be held to the same standards. I’m holding Zoe to the same standards as I would a male who cheats on his partner.
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It’s explicitly stated in the first goddamn post.
did you even read this? be honest: did you read everything on this page? are you a complete shill for zoe? otherwise i don’t see how you could have if you really believe what you’re saying. it was explicitly stated in chat logs. she cheated. she lied. she promised to be transparent and was not. she forced him to stop so much as socializing with a girl that even hinted at being interested in him.
even if monogamy isn’t “presumed,” there is no ethical way to have sex with multiple people without the knowledge and consent of every person involved. she *acted in a way that was directly and utterly contrary to her stated values regarding sexual consent and fidelity*. and that makes her an *unethical slut.* that is the problem.
this isn’t even touching on how manipulative, controlling (dictating who he could socialize with), suspicious, possessive, dishonest, passive aggressive, and ultimately profoundly abusive she was.
> we condone players
Men who stay in a committed, monogamous relationship and secretly sleep around on the side?
No, we don’t.
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you clearly read the post in it’s entirety
I know that you’re probably still pretty pissed at Zoe, but can you not refuse to approve my comment because I mentioned that she didn’t cheat on you, she in fact lied to you? You’ve approved a lot of comments after I made mine. I am quite on your side about this but that’s really changing given the fact you’re refusing to approve my comment simply for pointing out she didn’t cheat on you, but in fact lied to you? That makes me think you have an ulterior motive/agenda, and I don’t want to think that as you seem to be the victim here and like a guy who got caught up in her bullshit and mental issues.
I didn’t approve your comment because it was incorrect. She cheated on me. We were in a monogamous relationship when she slept with Nathan, and Robin, and Josh.
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I strongly recommend you don’t ignore posts just because you believe them to be incorrect (in this case it obviously was incorrect), as people, such as Anon, will often take it the wrong way, like Anon.
Also, I have a question for you. Maybe you mentioned the answer somewhere in all this and I missed it, but do you think she slept with Grayson so that she could get coverage for her game? Or do you think she slept with him for the same sort of “in the moment” reasons she slept with the other two? My Interpretation since I read The Zoe Post a few days ago was that she didn’t sleep with him for coverage, being that it was over a long period of time and she got very little out of it (Grayson didn’t publicly write much about Depression Quest, that I can tell).
So many of our fellow internet people were angered by this because of the perceived corruption in games journalism, but all I saw were two horny adults committing infidelities, one betraying her strongly-proclaimed ethics. A statement from you regarding this could help direct the outcry toward being more factual and more on-topic instead of being “See. We said games journalism is corrupt! They’re all cheating liars!” And, perhaps games journalism is corrupt, but that doesn’t seem to be the point of the story you’ve told, as I understood it. This seemed more like a proclamation of Zoe’s phoniness, a warning for those who idolize her. Or maybe I misunderstood drastically.
I’d be grateful for your thoughts!
Yeah, this had generated enough confusion that I decided to specifically clarify it in the header recently.
I don’t think she fucked him for coverage, I think she fucked him despite the extent to which having sex with a journalist would be problematic.
That said, seriously, journalists and devs are way too close for comfort in general. You should do something about it, and you don’t need this blog to accomplish that.
What is your definition of cheating on you? You claim yourself in the posts that you guys were on a break. How is it cheating on you if she has sex wtih random people on a break? You agreed to not sleep with other people, but you were on a break. That means you’re not a couple, no? Or do you believe you were still a couple, but just deciding to not see each other for a while but still be “with” each other? I totally agree with you if it’s the latter. I’m just trying to clarify for my own brain. I again still completely side with you on this, it’s just it felt like she lied to you more than she cheated on you, unless you define “a break” differently than I do (which is totally fine, I just want to clarify).
Thanks again for posting this. It takes a lot of courage to admit to being so horribly treated by someone like she treated you. I hope she finds the help she needs at counselling.
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My definition of being cheated on is having sex with people while we were in an exclusive relationship. Again. She cheated on me for at least two months before we went on break.
She tried Gaslighting the shit out of you.
this fits the definition perfectly.
Eron, I’ve been in a relationship like this one before, with a funny, creative, sweet-yet-sassy bombshell who still looks great in a bikini 15 years later to boot (and who is still single with never a relationship more than 6-9 months that I’ve ever seen). She’s also manipulative to exactly this insane degree, will lie about lies about lies, will do anything to cover up and avoid getting caught and will give Oscar-worthy performances of remorse and reform when confronted with evidence of her lies while lying further to avoid you learning about the things she’s just recently done, and multiple other similarities (including bouts of depression) to what you’ve related. Be VERY GLAD you are through with her, she is a psychopath. I mean that literally, as in she has no actual empathetic connection with others beyond her own self-interests and self-promotion. You made her feel good for a while, so you were her favorite flavor for a bit, until she wanted to try some others again. She got defensive later with you and wanted her distance because she was off finding other guys you didn’t know about to temporarily fill the yawning chasm that is her emotional center. That really hurts to have that as your first deep crash into love, but life is inherently unfair dude.
There is no reconciling you, a normal and “connected” person, with someone like her. You’ve gotten out of a very destructive relationship – recognize that and do not fall for this sh-t ever again. As the great George W. Bush said so eloquently,”There’s an old saying in Tennessee – I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee – that says, fool me once, shame on – shame on you. Fool me – can’t get fooled again.”
Please, I understand it’s so easy to want to, but if you could not try to diagnose people you’ve never met, without the qualifications, that would be helpful…
Seriously, there are at least 3 personality disorders this could fit. None are excluded. And those who love throwing pop-psych accusations of “Sociopathy” or “Psychopathy” should also maybe look further into our current understanding of how empathy systems work… No empathy tends towards autism-spectrum disorders, and we all know how manipulative those aspergers kids get, right?
There is someone dealing with a whole heap of pain, so please leave your own personal issues aside, and just offer support, without unsupportable, biased and unhelpful conjecture…
I agree with this. The armchair psychoanalyzing is not helpful, and I should be more careful to avoid approving comments which co-opt medical terminology. I’ve been primarily focusing on people making more blatant and specific diagnoses of personality disorders.
I get that. I’m sorely tempted to make them myself in everyday life, but since I got my own (eventually) correct diagnosis, and noticed the profound understanding gap between public perception of my diagnosis and how I came to view it through therapy, well… The dissonance is fierce and frightening, and probably has a negative effect on people seeking treatment.
To be honest, I’m glad that comment made it through. Granted, if one spent all day correcting unhelpfulness on the internet, well, one wouldn’t have a life. Still, I do enjoy the odd opportunity to provide alternate perspectives to commonly accepted fallacies…
Incidentally, this is why I think I’d like you as a person: You managed to go through all of the above post in real life, and still wrote it in a way I’d have serious difficulty doing. Impressively objective, and amazingly bare of value judgments. Even going so far as to only judge somebody’s behavior by their own values. Remarkable restraint, considering how much you could be/are hurting.
I will follow your example, and rather than commenting on your former relationship negatively, I’ll simply state that, when you find somebody as capable of reasoned, caring, selfless, forgiving, understanding behavior and communication, that will be the relationship that makes you being who you are in relationships worthwhile. Never let anyone’s poor behavior allow you to lower your values, but rather to raise your standards.
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sorry that this is detracting from the original topic here a bit;
What exactly are your qualifications in psychiatric disorders JShaft? specifically where it concerns Autism-spectrum and Asperger’s Syndrome.
My qualifications in that area….I’m actually diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome; and sorry to burst your bubble here, but…the whole “no empathy” thing, is really only an extremely small group of people diagnosed with Autism. Mainly those with Autism and Mental retardation. Please by all means, tell me exactly how manipulative us Asperger’s kids can get…because I’d LOVE to hear.
I myself have been diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome, and I find everything that she did to him appalling. Frankly I completely understand and feel where he’s coming from in all this. What Autism does at its most gentle moments (like Asperger’s Syndrome) is affect one’s ability to socialize with others. Make you feel anxious about approaching others for fear of being asked ANYTHING, or giving the wrong answer. It’s a disability of the mind that is present from birth, and as such will be different for each individual diagnosed with it. So please, as Eron has said, let’s not bring psychological disorders into play here, because that will inevitably throw more fuel onto the fire that is Zoe Quinn.
In all honesty, the sad thing is that even those who try and claim to be unbiased such as wikipedia and other “news/current events” outlets/websites, are taking sides in this…whether directly or indirectly. I honestly hate to say it but I think this was all calculated on her part. She has essentially roped up the majority of what are considered “reliable sources” of information and news on the internet, and corrupted them to her side to the point where they will not accept any evidence to the contrary about her position and defend it to the bitter end.
If i were in your shoes Eron, i probably would have much easier for her to manipulate as I tend to withdraw into myself and pull away from the rest of the world sometimes.
The amount of pain and suffering she has put you through is unimaginable, and then to top it off she essentially wants to sweep you under the rug as if you are just dirt and can’t be seen and thus can’t be there to bother her.
On a slight humorous side….lets just hope she doesn’t try to found a cult, because clearly she’d be quite successful at that lol….
All kidding aside though, thankfully you got out of the cycle when you did. Everything about what she said when you caught her in her lies reeked of desperation, desperately trying to cover it up, desperately trying to “re-spin” it to be about you and not her, and desperately trying to get you to believe her. Unfortunately every time you believed her, as you said, furthered the cycle and rewarded her to an extent and thus she continued to do it.
However do not let things with her be an example of how to handle future relationships. If anything, remember that if someone repeatedly rejects your olive branch of peace, they are not worth the continued trouble.
As the saying goes: “Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice shame on me”, You will certainly find the one person you are meant to be with in time. But for now, heal yourself…mind and body. Reforge yourself into someone who is better than who you were, someone better than the person she left a broken angry mess. Rise again from the ashes stronger than you were in the past, and you will have won the long battle against her.
Okay, two things, one – point taken. Two, my fault for deploying my own sarcasm and satire on the internet, I should know better than to do that. In regards to bringing up Autism Spectrum Disorders, that’s exactly what I was doing, as well as suggesting that Autistic people are somehow manipulative. It was intended to highlight the stupidity of any such statement, and I know just about everything I said is, whilst popularly accepted “fact” is also wrong at best and further questionable besides that.
Still, I point out to others that they shouldn’t use satire where it could easily offend if mistaken for honest discourse, and I’ve gone and done it here. My bad, and I apologise to anyone I’ve offended.
As for qualifications, I have none, other than being the main driving force behind somebody going from an extreme case of a personality disorder thought incurable (since it was first described all the way to at, the earliest, 1990. Some still don’t accept the proof that it’s curable, because that’d mean they had to re-evaluate 50+ years of treating curable people like intentional monsters) to being almost symptom-free. So, not at all, by any real measure, but I’m aware of my own issues and how best to resolve them.
Oh, and as for making up for my poor use of humor in text form, as well as (understandably) perceived bias against those on the Autism Spectrum: I’d just like to finish by pointing out that some of my best friends are on the Autism spectrum.
My only advice to you is to never, ever speak to her again. Don’t message her, don’t call her, ignore her completely. It’s the only way you’ll ever get over her. You don’t want any more contact with such a nasty, manipulative liar. You’ll just end up being hurt more and more if you continue contact. Block her, delete her, everything. But make this as public as you can, because the world needs to know just how much of a terrible, awful person she is.
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Yes, no contact is the way to go with people like this.
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I can only imagine how much courage it took for you to post all of this knowing what the consequences would potentially be. You didn’t deserve any of this shit going down and she does not deserve a reputation as a person working towards SJ in games when she did all of this shit. As a person who has dealt with this sort of behaviour in a relationship and has the greatest interest in having games be about something “more” I have to say that as a fellow human being I am proud of you for daring to do this. I wish you the best in moving on from this.
Bad timing to have the name Robin and posting here…
Might be so but not gonna change my name in this situation, it’s not a name unique to one individual and I feel my message should come from me and not some random nickname.
What I can’t understand yet is how narcicist and selfish a person can be to cheat on you, but get hysterical and jealous about you out of the idea of you doing that. You really had courage to do this, and I wish making this public helps you to deal with it. Really.
On a minor scale, I’ve been in a situation like this (like everyone) and I almost can feel your anger like its mine.
I had an alarmingly similar experience to this and I’m glad you’ve escaped the cycle. Thanks for sharing, seriously.
Oh man. I came here to get more information on what’s been going on after reading about Zoe’s attack on the Wizardchan guys. I’m not one of those guys, but I can sympathize with them being a man who is past his teens as a virgin, suffers from depression, and a heightened level of social anxiety and paranoia. It hurt to read that someone could be for justice and then say crap like she has. Publicly, no less. I figured, if I came here and read this, something on a more personal level, I could find some reasoning behind her words. SOMETHING that could take the sting away…
All I found was that she was even worse to you than she was to people like me. I’m sorry to hear about what happened and I’m further appalled that such a personality type could actually exist in the human beings I love so much. I know it’s wrong to buy in everything you read on the Internet, but I feel like this is honest enough and heartfelt enough to take the risk. I just really hope this doesn’t have further backlash against SJW or feminist in the industry just because one person’s so terribly. Especially since I recently befriended a young genderfluid, upcoming social justice warrior. I’d hate to see any flak being put on them because of something like this.
Have a nice cup of something for me too. I’m not really behind heavy drinking, or alcohol in general, so I can’t really justifiably say have a cold one on me… but uh… Yeah. A nice cup of tea or something. If you’re ever in the Atlanta area, I’ll have one with ya.
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This is pretty disgusting. I found out because I was browsing through the TotalBiscuit subreddit, and there was a huge thread going on. And everyone who talked about it that wasn’t defending her referenced some kind of invisible proof; it seemed real, but I remained skeptical. After all, nobody wants to jump to conclusions, least of all about people you’ve never even heard of.
But then, I found this website.
I gotta say man, I’m feeling real bad for you. And I’m absolutely horrified by the people defending her under the name of “feminism” or “social justice”; every action she’s taken that has been chronicled has been, at best, a slap to the face of the people who truly propound equality for all.
And don’t get me started on how I feel about deception in a relationship, or manipulation.
Fact of the matter is that what happened here is simply disgusting. And I feel for you, my friend. I really do.
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Truly sorry for the grief this girl has put on you. Her lifetime of narcissism and pathological tendencies will inevitably ruin her career and personal life, don’t worry. I’m sure that’s not what you want, but it’s probably what she deserves. Theres far more talented females making more honest video games in a more honest fashion, it’s not fair for a bottom dweller to get her head about sewer level for very long.
She needs to really be honest with the world and herself to let this ‘run its course ‘
I hope you don’t let this become you, I hope this fades away to nostalgia like high school, good luck with the hate and the vultures.
I read everything. I want you to know you are my hero.
I´m happy that you got out of this abusive relationship with a black eye, more or less. Sad that you had to go through this, but I rely on the hope that going through this helps you become more secure and complete a person in the future.
you have my best wishes, and may you stop hurting soon. Kind regards, Jeremy
I had a coworker who went through a similar tale. Very nasty stuff. Hopefully you can move on soon and have a healthy relationship with other people..that is, after you’re done being hunted by people who have predetermined beliefs on that matter. Sorry that I and others can’t help you more.
I won’t talk about the whole journalism stuff because all the internet is already talking about that.
I related to what happened to you from start to finish, I even dropped a tear or two. I find it amazing how coherent and intelligent your post is. I wouldn’t be able to write something like that, my similar experience is just a blurry shitstorm of screams and tears.
You deserve a slow respectful clap, so here you go.
Just a really quick point, besides hugs and general “been there” support: Get some therapy, good therapy. Things like this can have seriously damaging long term implications for one’s mental health, trust me on this. Also, having someone who understands how a healthy human mind works can help you, simply by allowing you to get confirmation of feelings and thoughts being okay or unhelpful. After this sort of thing happened to me, a lot of otherwise useful and helpful processes got thrown away with some bad ideas, and some really unhelpful viewpoints on reality got to hang around, as they seemed valid in the fog…
Seriously, the longer you leave that process to yourself, the longer it’ll take you to “unlearn” unhelpful processes when they’re finally identified…
Oh, and sorry for being so… clinical-sounding and detached, but it’s actually really difficult for me to write while emotional, and if I allow much of the content of your present reality to get into my heart, flashbacks may occur…
But yeah, this is serious. Serious serious serious. There is no “You deserved it”, no “It wasn’t all that bad…”, no… You have been profoundly emotionally and sexually abused by an intimate partner, and trying to ignore that harsh, frightening reality will do you no favors.
On the plus side, if there can be said to be such a thing: This can make you strong. You now have examples of almost every personal boundary you posses, and if you learn from that, and learn how to keep those boundaries firm, even in the face of such extreme abuse, you’ll turn out a very strong person indeed.
I wish you all the best.
IIRC she didn’t exclusively cheat on him during that break.
Have been hearing about this “Five Guys” thing for a couple of days and was looking for context, never expected this giant, black shitstorm. It takes a heap of guts to post something like this, and I feel for you hard, man.
and then the wicked witch of the west will probably try to claim copyright on the chat logs lol
well done for posting this, i hope it serves as a warning to any messed up people who think this kind of behavior is normal that one day it might very well bite you in the bloody arse…..wtf is the depression game anyway…..i guess you could say she wanted you to play the real life version.
Props to you for posting all this. I know it’s hard, and I know you’re getting a veritable shitstorm of hate from SJWs who side with Quinn for no good reason. I wish you the best of luck, and I really hope that you pull through all of it in good mental health. I don’t know you, and you don’t know me, and we may not see eye-to-eye on everything, but you seem like a damn good person and if you ever want to talk to someone (or even just vent at someone) I’m here for ya. I really respect your strength and honesty and your commitment to not dragging her through the mud, but just airing out the grievances and backing them up with solid proof.
Wow. WOW. When I got to the bit with “the fun little emergent two player power / head game” I kinda started bouncing in my chair. HEY, I KNOW THAT GAME! I HAVE TOTALLY PLAYED THAT GAME! Man, that game is /hard/!
As many, many people here have already said… wish I could buy you a beer. Have been there, have done that, and seriously… you would be AMAZED how much the stories look alike (no, I’m not referring to Zoe personally, mine was a different person and ten years ago).
Chin up, and I seriously hope the OMG INTERNETS CONTROVERSY doesn’t end up making this even worse.
Aww, not allowed to attack feminists here eh? Even though the guilty Z is undoubtedly one of them? No matter. I won’t even be looking at a demo for Emo-Quest. She can rot.
Open thine eyes o’ wrong’d one.
I’m trying to keep the discussion from turning into an attack on people who didn’t do anything wrong.
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Her being a feminist has as much to do with this as her being white or playing video games. People who are attacking feminists (or feminists who are defending her for the sake of solidarity) are only serving to move the discussion away from the real issues at hand.
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She’s not a feminist. She may call herself one, but her actions prove undoubtedly that she is not.
As a feminist, I have nothing but condemnation for Zoe Quinn.
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She’s hiding behind the oppression of women as to why what she did wasn’t wrong, or bad, nor that she might have to redress the cronyism she’s benefited from.
That said, she doesn’t deserve this sort of harassment.
I don’t like american feminists, and I see the likes of Andrea Dworkian are a shame on the word. Still, credit where it’s due, this woman is NOT a feminist. She is trying to use the feminist level to advance her own personal agenda. Many other feminists do that, but this one went to boycott the work of other women to avoid competition for hers.
Much as I dislike Anita Sarkeesian, she’s on a much higher level than Zoe Quinn, and doesn’t deserve the comparison. I still have to see Anita Sarkeesian boycotting a group of males trying to help females create new videogames. And that’s Sarkeesian, a feminist who hasn’t got my respect. Christina Hoff Sommers and Camile Paglia do not deserve to be put in the same sack as this one. Ever.
It sounds like you’ve been through a roller-coaster that passed through a tornado. My heart sincerely goes out to you. Reading your story brought everything back to me, the lying, more lying, and damned lying. There was this middle school sweetheart of mine, who, after 10 years was my first love. As her stories unraveled, its remarkable how her siren’s song kept me enchanted. Our story, like most things toxic, ended 19 months ago.
I did a few things right, and a few things wrong after ending it. Following the advice of many friends, I stuck to no contact. I failed at guarding my heart though, and week afterward I found myself in the arms of two succubi rebounds. The first one for a few months, and the second a few short weeks after the first. I look back and think that maybe I wanted the pain, maybe it reminded me of her. Nevertheless, a two week “Kentucky Deluxe” bender helped me see enough reason to leave the last one.
Its been 13 months since then, and while its hard, everyday gets easier. I truly enjoy being single now, but it still chillingly feel like there is a hole in my heart. I can’t dream of bringing myself to walk down that road again, not that i’m going to give myself a chance too. I’m now throwing everything behind the pursuit of myself, my ambitions, and dreams.
I wish you the best good sir, and thank you for sharing your story..
What she did was wrong, but the end takes the freakin’ cake.
so eron, as a man who has played and won the game you so accurately described, i feel for you man. i wanna buy you a nice pair of headphones since that giant [jerk] stole yours, would there be a way for me to do this for you? consider it me buying a whiskey for a bro 🙂
Haha, thank you for the offer. Unfortunately, given the number of offers, if I opened up a headphone fund, I would have more headphones than I can fit in my closet.
But I really do appreciate the offer!
I am truly sorry you had to experience this. I have been through something hauntingly similar (even with the Facebook). From believing the lies, to questioning your own sanity, and feeling a tremendous amount of guilt, all to discover your SO had been insincere since day 1. Just reading this, it seems cheaters all carry the same patterns of behaviour. No human being deserves to go through this EVER. At least we will know she will never be a vegetable… cause “even artichokes have hearts”.
One day you will regret this shit, all this fucking public thing … Dude this is insane all the world now how you AND are fuckup somehow !! All the funking world (I’m french by the way) and maybe this shit will stick on BOTH of you for a long time !!
Because you testimonies about your relationship say a lot about her but about you too. How insecure you are, how immature you are, how damaged … But now i will have a good damn example to inform about personal privacy !!
And careful bro’ i don’t know how its work in US but in my country you can get serious trouble doing this kind shit.
An you lie to present you only like a victim here, where did the part where you expose her naked and other crazy stuff goes ? Not like here maybe but for sure you are vindictive, manipulator, freaky angry man … you should have therapy has well … Both of you …
I never “exposed her naked.” I was under the impression that the website those pictures were on had long gone out of business. The internet managed to find them, in any case. But yeah, I specifically censored any information that would expose her sex life outside of the infidelity, because I didn’t want her to be subjected to undue harassment.
Thanks for taking the time to post all this. And well, thanks for keeping the discussion in comments from spilling into hate on things unrelated to the issue at hand. Appreciate it.
I don’t think she shut down at the end because she didn’t want logs to exist. You backed her into a corner demanding that she explain her behavior to you in order for your relationship to progress, and the plain fact is that she doesn’t want to face her actions or get to the root of why she behaved that way. Her skill is in emotionally manipulating people — best done IRL. You finally got to a point of demanding an explanation through text, which made it impossible for her to toss you around emotionally anymore, so she gave up. Good for you and I’m glad you found your strength.
I don’t condone what she did to you, but I also don’t condone airing it all online. You say you are saving us from being hurt by her, but you are doing quite the opposite. You should have been the bigger person and just moved on with your life and washed your hands of her rather than putting together this whole blog. Yes you will find people like me that sympathize with you and feel sorry for what she did, but the more this blog spreads the more sleazy people will find it and start trying to get with her. You basically just put a big flag over her head saying “Hey she is easy and sleeps around” and made it so more men will try to get with her. You have essentially just gave her sexual looseness a megaphone which will result in her now having more partners, not less and made it so she won’t have to look now.
Saving us from being hurt by her? You realize the chances of people meeting her is extremely slim unless they work in the same industry as her? I spend my days with my wife of 11 years (been with her for 13 years) and 9 year old son. I can understand wanting only one partner as my wife was my first and will be my last. I know she hurt you, but this page isn’t going to accomplish anything like you think it will and with the way things have gone recently, it can be viewed as cyber-bullying which is putting your safety at risk. I wish you would take this down and let her ruin her life while you move on with yours, but if you won’t then at least be careful with what you post as any of it can bring legal actions.
You are not the one I’m warning. The people she will be working with are. It is intended for them to see. And now they *all* know it exists.
But incidentally, for the public, this blog portrays an account of someone’s experience dealing with an emotional abuser, and many have learned from it and shared their own experiences. Many feel it has helped them.
So I suppose, even if it doesn’t warn you about Zoe, it’s warned you about people with similar behaviors, and you’ll know to avoid them.
What can I say. As many others, I have been seating for more than an hour reading this. Captivated. I was seeing double all along. Memories in the background. Those things that were killing me, those words and tricks she used. The everlasting hope. Chances given. Backstabbing. Why .
I also felt alone. Who would believe that shit .
Thanks for going public. Sharing this. I wished for so long I could have done the same with my ex. Exposing the lies. The mind games. I feel it’s a fucking rape of the mind.
It’s good to know I’m not the only one who went through that sick roller coaster because of a manipulative and selfish person pretending to be perfect.
Recovery’s a bitch. Never really complete. I’m waiting for time travel.
So I can go back and tell her to go **** herself when she comes to my door to introduce herself.
That would be neat.
That was quite some read, deja vu, I feel for you man. I’ve been there under similar circumstances. It’s a painful experience because we lose the person twice. We lose the person they pretend to be so that you get close to them, they find out all your weaknesses as you open up, then we lose the real person, the abuser, when the end comes, whether we get out under our own steam or when we’re kicked to the kerb once they line up their next victim.
Abusers follow a similar playbook but the ‘rules’ vary. Their aim is control, puppet mastery, without the victim being any the wiser as the victim is usually given something in return without realizing there’s a hidden contract. It’s when the victim notices something is amiss outside of the honeymoon period (red flags are often put to one side during this time), that if the abuser is questioned over contradictions that appear as their web of lies partially unravels, they put into practice decades of techniques to retain control, the rules you list in your case. You have no chance at this point, you’re already on the ropes, just realizing that you’ve been in the ring since day one and the whole thing is rigged. As soon as you challenge the status quo, if you don’t behave the way they want you to behave and you don’t follow their plan, maybe don’t say things at the right time, in the right way or don’t carry out some other action, you will be punished. Loss of control = punishment.
The level of punishment is a way to retain control and a way to take revenge for not towing the invisible line. This is usually subtle at first, then it can escalate if you continue to prevent them from exerting control. For me, it went from crocodile tears, to sudden threats of splitting up (everything would be normal, then the threat would come completely out of the blue) to sleep deprivation, gaslighting, trying to cut me off from friends and family, so she could exert full control with no outside influences, to suicide threats (she thought suicide was cowardly but it didn’t stop her using it as a weapon to stop me from leaving her or from her getting her own way). I eventually pushed back on all of this but every time I did, this lead to her switching sides from persecutor, to victim, classic Karpman drama triangle – http://therapyideas.net/triangles.htm It drives a normal, caring person insane after a while.
Much like your post here is being ignored by a lot of the media/bloggers so they can pursue their own narrative, it’s easy for abusers to paint themselves as victims (other parties and events certainly aren’t helping), keeping everyone from discussing the real issue, which is that they abuse and will do anything they can to prevent exposure, even down to blackening your name with everyone of your common friends (in my case) so that you as the real victim, is cast as the abuser. You get the gist.
“A strange game. The only way to win is not to play.” I laughed at this once I’d gotten clear of the toxicity. It can take a while to laugh again. I love that film.
I can only commend you for sharing and trying to make sense of it all. It can take years. Watch out for PTSD, that bit me in the ass for about half a year. All the best.
I now have read the full blog. I am at a loss for words. I cannot say how sorry I am for you. I’m really sorry for what’s happened to you. But I am glad you made it public. I think the world needs more awareness and knowledge about psychologically abusive behaviour. Thank you for publishing this. It’s important.
I think population needs to be informed about this type of behaviour. In theory, 4% of people are psycopaths, and the ones who aren’t stupid manage to merge in society. 4% means one in 25 people, which is a lot. Everyone has, then, a huge chance of being attacked or influenced by such a personality. I had one in my family. Met two or three, though only one was close enough to cause me psychological damage (a close family member who influenced me during my childhood: the upper side was, once I broke the chains I was vaccinated against such behaviour: I can see them coming easily). I cannot stress how much of a tragedy it must be for you that the first sociopath who got to hurt you was also the first woman you really loved. I can easily detect their “uncanny valley” style… there’s something artificial about their body language and face expressions, there’s something way too perfect about how good they are (which is something they tell you as soon as they can), they can easily be caught in contradictions at the very beginning (though you may ignore them if you’re swayed by their charm). But since they are great imitators and liars, if you don’t know them from the cradle (as is unluckily and luckily my case), they can charm almost everyone’s pants off them easily. Since they don’t feel as human beings, they don’t really appreciate or want to keep love and friendship for what they are, they appreciate those emotions in others because they provide power over other people. Power is the only thing that gives them a rush: if you want to understand why the lies and the puzzles and trying to use her emotions over you, understand this: she just wanted power over you. Not stablishing clear rules or bending them constantly is a technique used by manipulators. They take away references, rules, or anything anyone can use to apply rational thought or detect inconsistencies. Thank God/Luck/InsertPreferredStuff you’re rational and smart enough to detect the crap without letting your strong feelings overwhelm your mind. Thank Heavens also that you were old enough so that your thinking mind can overcome your instincts more easily. Imagine the same treatment applied to a teenager. I know you’re deeply hurt and this might affect your relationships for a long time, but at least you’re a grown up man with a background in science and logic. Imagine when the same is done to a teenager educated in a religion, for example.
Again, I am sorry for what happened to you, and thank you for the information and the courage needed to publish it.
I hope in time you manage to heal the wounds. I hope you still have that friend (the one Zoey didn’t want you to see), because I would feel really bad if this woman defined all women for you in your head from now on.
Have you considered going to therapy? I don’t know if it’s needed, but…
Have you thought about trying to heal by starting a foundation or support group of awareness against psychological abuse? Any kind of psychological abuse: emotional blackmail, esteem-crushing, everything, and forgetting about gender… Or maybe it exists and you could join them. I suggest this because normally, helping others helps people heal.
In any case, I hope you get better and survive the backlash.
I can’t really say anything that hasn’t already been said. Like many others commenting, I’ve been through similar shit. Maybe one day, just by chance, I’ll get to shake your hand one day.
Eron, if you ever find yourself in central IL just let me know, drinks are on me…
I don’t want to be harsh with you, as I know you’re hurting. I just hope that you can take this experience and learn from it–I mean really, TRULY learn from it. You wrote to Zoe that “I don’t think I need to be fixed”, but the fact of the matter is you not only invited this person into your life, you were even willing to resume your relationship with her even after she’d proven herself to be not only unfaithful but also a liar. That says as much about you as it does about her.
Also, I’m not sure I would have put all this out there, but…hey, it’s happened, and it’s caused a shitstorm. And it’s kind of amazing. But I digress:
I know it was your first love, and we all make mistakes when we’re coming right out of the gate, but in the aftermath of this I REALLY hope you ask yourself why you invited a person like Zoe into your life, and what is it about YOU that prevents you from setting boundaries and allowing others to abuse you. I’m saying this not to be condescending or harsh, but I sat here and read this whole thing and the fact is, you are BOTH very damaged people–it’s just that Zoe is a clearly colossal trainwreck, while you’re more like a house built on a wobbly foundation, destined to collapse internally over the long haul.
Pulling for you, man–like so many others here.
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